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| toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help https://vlab.su/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=103440 |
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| ilie321 [ 27 июн 2020, 17:54 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
I have tried to do controller schematic until I get the new mosfets it will take time. The schematic is aproximative 95% ok Maybe this will help someone else P11 from schematic it is +12V rail (I have like 5v when Ps_on grounded) P12 it is comming by Optocoupler from vb_ok output of pfc ic . Vb_ok means pfc is OK (need to check that is stable and not dropping in load) Вложение: 20200627_164900.jpg Вложение: 20200627_164852.jpg Вложение: 20200627_164708.jpg Вложение: 20200627_164644.jpg @RsM do you think that pfc it is OK? And also secondary part no short so should be OK also? |
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| RsM [ 27 июн 2020, 20:21 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
As we can see - something is not OK. Did you check transistors on your 1st photo in the post above? Read my cycle - here You can see there some OK and NOT OK situations - look at the spoilers ))) |
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| ilie321 [ 27 июн 2020, 20:32 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
RsM писал(а): Did you check transistors on your 1st photo in the post above? Yes all are OK. P11 from schematic it is +12V rail (I have like 5v when Ps_on grounded) P12 it is comming by Optocoupler from vb_ok output of pfc ic . Vb_ok means pfc is OK (need to check that is stable and not dropping? ) There is also an ps223 monitoring ic in secondary side. This can cut power to pfc I think and pfc to main controller here I think. RsM писал(а): Read my cycle - here I tried to read. Google translate sucks only half readable in English :( even less in Romanian. |
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| ilie321 [ 28 июн 2020, 12:07 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
More info I have 3 Optocouplers on board: 1 is going from ps223 ic pin3 fpo/ to pfc to start pfc. 1 is giving overload info to small pwm ic used for 5v stb 1 is coming from pfc as *ok pfc* to main pwm controller as start condition (P12 from schematic) . |
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| mia [ 28 июн 2020, 14:35 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
ilie321 писал(а): I tried to read. Google translate sucks only half readable in English :( even less in Romanian. The reason is not only in Google, but in many slang words... |
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| ilie321 [ 28 июн 2020, 21:57 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
RsM писал(а): You can see there some OK and NOT OK situations - look at the spoilers ))) The waveform in gates of primary mosfets pass trough an transformer so from what I seen before they break was like a sin wave on their gates. Why do you think that they break? 1.Pfc don't think can break them and it seams OK at first look 2. There is the chopper and 2 capacitors and 1.more coils as load for them. Capacitors are in parallel I measured them they give exactly as is written on them. Coils have continuity. I can't measure resistance it is too low but I can measure inductance if needed. 3. An on off fast (that trying to start many times at short intervals like you can hear in the audio file I posted can break them maybe?(my doubt) I measure the feedback curent on cs pin before they break and it was lower than it should be (0.2 to 0.5v not stable ) 4. Or the controller as last ideea. Do you think I should change controller also before to try again? |
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| ilie321 [ 30 июн 2020, 09:10 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
RsM писал(а): something is not OKl Any suggestions? Thank you |
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| mia [ 30 июн 2020, 10:07 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
ilie321 писал(а): I seen before they break was like a sin wave on their gates If really sin wave - alarm ! Active mode vs switch mode! Overheat and burn... |
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| ilie321 [ 30 июн 2020, 11:09 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
The circuit looks like this : Вложение: 20200630_101230.jpg in p1 2 3 4 5 8 I have something like this Вложение: 20200630_121920.jpg Frequency is low until 12v is present. At that point it pass to 110khz+ After transformer in mosfet gates it looks like this : Вложение: 20200630_134909.jpg It is an option to disable this ps223 chip and give Ps_on after it? Seams pin 3 of this ic *fpo/* is giving start to pfc and everything else. If I ground PS-on this pin stay like half of second ok and then shoot down everything |
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| ilie321 [ 03 июл 2020, 21:45 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
Hello I made a new test no 400v on input but I forced the controller to start and I put 10 to 20v DC instead of 400 to see the waveform. In the poin x from this schematic Вложение: 20200703_204128.jpg I get at 10v this form Вложение: 20200703_203600.jpg and at 20v second form same amplitude both. Вложение: 20200703_203614.jpg Any ideas? Thanks |
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| ilie321 [ 05 июл 2020, 21:38 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
Any idea anyone? Can chopper get bad? any way to check them? I tried to measure inductance I get like 0.1uH both primary and secondary coils. The capacitance in series it is 183nf and the other coil in series is like 50uH. Frequency at start rest at 32.8kHz which it is minimum of the controller. If I force 12v presence from other supply or I force current protection loop to trigger frequency become 110kHz+. From any point controller seams to work OK but somehow both mosfets die fast. The current protection don't even trigger. Strange. |
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| ilie321 [ 06 июл 2020, 12:48 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
RsM писал(а): check Hello Question : If I have a square wave 15Vpp and 32kHz in the point A from next schematic. What should I get between B - C or D. The chopper is from this psu and at between points B C or D I get some very small and rubbish signal. No short at b c D and the mosfets are off so no load there. Вложение: 20200706_114129.jpg Point A signal: Вложение: 20200706_113900.jpg
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| mia [ 06 июл 2020, 13:15 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
Isolate all connection point of the transformer and put square wave directly to the transformer (without capacitor and coil). Look signal between the B, C, D. Measure inductance all coil's of the transformer. |
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| ilie321 [ 06 июл 2020, 15:24 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
mia писал(а): Isolate all connection point of the transformer and put square wave directly to the transformer (without capacitor and coil). Look signal between the B, C, D. Measure inductance all coil's of the transformer. I did this. With capacitor in circuit (15Vpp point A) C B= Вложение: 20200706_142126.jpg Without capacity but at 2Vpp in point A. only to limit current see. Вложение: 20200706_142145.jpg Both coil's from chopper have low inductance 0.1uH or less. The big coil that is after capacitor has 50uH |
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| mia [ 06 июл 2020, 17:02 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
Try reverse - input signal to B-D, look output signal from A. Additional try sine wave signal. Try lowering the frequency. |
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| ilie321 [ 06 июл 2020, 17:22 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
mia писал(а): Try reverse I can't do that. I was using the existing controller and primary side mosfets for first part only the voltage was 20V not 400V. To remove chopper is way too hard. I don't understand why at 400V both mosfets die when at 20V they use only 0.02A (no load). The feedback current from primary side don't even reach the protection value at 400V it is like 0.5V and at 1.6V it start first step of pretection and yet mosfets die. Maybe it is because it start and stop few times per second and transitory effect kill them. When I have the new ones I will stop the secondary side protection to turn them off to see what will happen. The ps223 stop it at every 330ms if it don't detect 12v (I measured like 5v when it try to start). No shorts anywhere. The supply it is like new so no dead electrolitic capacitors I think. I put an sound file in my previous posts if you want to hear it. |
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| mia [ 06 июл 2020, 17:47 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
ilie321 писал(а): at between points B C or D I get some very small and rubbish signal I thought you want to check if the transformer is working - is there a short circuit in the coils ilie321 писал(а): Both coil's from chopper have low inductance 0.1uH or less. This is about coil B-D and coil A- to upper pin of capacitor ? |
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| ilie321 [ 06 июл 2020, 18:23 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
mia писал(а): I thought you want to check if the transformer is working Yes I wanted to check the chopper. It is not enough to send signal in primary coil and get some signal in secondary coil? I can't remove it. it has a lot of big solder points. Yes both coil's of chopper measure low inductance and resistance unde 0.1ohms. Big current necessary for 850w so I thought that big wires are necessary so low resistance and inductance or I'm wrong? |
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| mia [ 06 июл 2020, 19:28 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
B, C, D is free from another circuit ? How resistance between each and ground? ilie321 писал(а): both coil's of chopper measure low inductance and resistance unde 0.1ohms This may mean that the number of turns is the same. That is, the transformation ratio is 1: 1. If so, then the shape and amplitude of the signals should be very similar, but ... |
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| ilie321 [ 06 июл 2020, 22:43 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
I can't measure under 0.1uH and 0.1ohms. From what I see is at least 1:20 |
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| mia [ 06 июл 2020, 23:07 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
May be second section of transformer is overload by shorting element of the circuit. |
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| ilie321 [ 07 июл 2020, 07:03 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
I don't have any short after the mosfets in secondary part.. If I inject 12v on the 12v rail when primary part not with power it use like 80mA and I get the 5v and 3.3v output OK. Maybe only if the transformer itself has some short inside |
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| mia [ 07 июл 2020, 08:08 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
ilie321 писал(а): Maybe only if the transformer itself has some short inside Need to unsolder the transformer using a 60 watt soldering iron and solder suction |
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| ilie321 [ 07 июл 2020, 13:35 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
And how I test it? It has some strange code on it. Nothing clear on Google about this codes Posted after 7 minutes 15 seconds: There is linearity in voltage conversion? If at 400v 32kHz I should have 12v at 40v I will have 1.2v? |
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| mia [ 07 июл 2020, 14:24 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
If you have a 220 V 50/60 Hz transformer with the appropriate voltages on the secondary coils, try using it for testing. The choice of secondary coils - have different voltages. If you have a sound generator (or audio output from a computer + software-produced variable sound frequencies + audio amplifier), try using it. But not a complete check, overcurrent can only be under high voltage during breakdown of insulation of coil wires. |
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| ilie321 [ 07 июл 2020, 14:32 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
So to use a sound generator in primary side and check secondary side? I don't understand last post. Can you explain more please? Thanks |
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| mia [ 07 июл 2020, 14:58 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
Need a signal source. If you remove the transformer from the board, then the signal can be applied to the primary or secondary windings, receiving the conversion of high to low and, accordingly, low to high. A sound generator is a simple device that produces sinusoidal oscillations that are convenient to use for testing transformers. |
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| ilie321 [ 08 июл 2020, 10:53 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
I can't get like 20mv on a 2v sin wave of 15kHz from primary to secondary. In reverse nothing to low impedance in secondary side |
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| mia [ 08 июл 2020, 11:10 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
You haven't transformer 220v/50Hz in home appliance, i.e. computer external audio speaker (transformer 220v/50hz 9-12v) etc ? |
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| ilie321 [ 08 июл 2020, 11:31 ] | |
| Заголовок сообщения: | Re: toughpower-grand-rgb-80-plus-gold-850 help |
I tested with audio signal of 2v vpp at 15khz. In primary side I put the signal and I was getting like 20mv in secondary side. If I put it in secondary I get nothing in primary side. I think is too low impedance in secondary coil. With 10v 50hz is not working OK. The frequency is too low I think for this type of transformer. I put in primary side 10v ac 50hz nothing in secondary. |
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